Free Thinkers

Rather, free steam games that will make you think!

Only a trio of brain exercisers this time around, starting with Friday the 13th: Killer Puzzle where you play as Jason Voorhees with the expected task of murdering everyone. However - Jason only moves in straight lines, so its possible to fall off the board or end up on a space that will end him. Luckily the severed head of his mother gives clues per level. Funny, violent and later on pretty tough! Definitely one that franchise fans might enjoy.

Next up is Wired, a basic platformer that actually teaches electronics. While there is some "running to make that jump" it is a very small part of the game, instead focused on wiring up machines to a power source to build or open the path ahead for you. Apart from the silly opening video which might turn off some people (just push past it, trust me), the rest of the videos are actually the highlight of the game for me with very clever lessons that you then get to use in practice to reach the next section. Excellent design!

You might end up learning something!

Lastly is a hilarious first person puzzler called Gravitas in which you use your gravity gauntlet to manipulate some cubes to get past each room, all while your robotic host tries to politely kill guide you through the gallery. It isn't very long and isn't very difficult so if you are only going to try one of these three free games, this is the one you should pick. Highly recommended, and is now one of my favorites. :)

Resident Evil, 0 and Infinite Darkness

Two games, one TV series.

Resident Evil 0

As Bravo Team's Rebecca Chambers, your job is to investigate a series of cannibalistic murders with your useless team who pretty much are eliminated by horrible creatures right near the start. Yes, there are zombies but somehow whatever reanimates them also can reanimate dogs and force other creatures to become way bigger than normal. Luckily, you do get a partner to help you because there are multiple puzzles that need two people but more importantly because you get six more inventory slots.

While the monsters are jump-scare level scary and the puzzles are fricking obscure at times, your main enemy will be your inventory space and the fixed camera angles. At least you can drop items but each room has an "item limit" which is laughable. Fortunately the map is very well designed once you get used to it, and shortcuts open back up to the starting areas meaning you'll always be able to go back. Worth a play if you like the series, but prepare to scratch your head a fair bit, especially at the start. I give it two herbs out of five.

Resident Evil

Since Bravo team went dark (due to the events of Resident Evil 0), Alpha team is sent in to find them and immediately gets attacked by zombie dogs who chase the survivors into a mansion filled with more locked doors, puzzles, and monsters. Playing as either Jill Valentine or Chris Redfield you need to do a full sweep of the place, and your old enemies of fixed camera angles and lack of inventory space will be back. This time, you can't just drop things anywhere either. You need to put them in a chest at the safe rooms.

 

Arachnophobia triggered!

While the contents of the chests are global (any chest, same contents) this still leads to a lot of back tracking, and this time that is more dangerous as the zombies don't just randomly come back - they WILL get back up if you don't randomly head shot them, or set them alight with limited fuel. Worse, if you down them only, there's a chance they come back as "crimsons" which can sprint. This really encourages just "dodging" them in the first place and seems like pretty good game design to me. Two and a half surprise spiders out of five.

Infinite Darkness

This four episode series has Leon Kennedy and Claire Redfield investigating zombie outbreaks in some unexcpected locations (as usual). While the CGI is decent enough the script is a bit weak, or at best rushed but at least there are many decent action segments. Not really missing out if you skip this one, but fans of the franchise might still enjoy it. I only give it one and a half rats out of five and wouldn't watch it again. The plot armor on the heroes is just too thick at times.

Sleeping Dogs: Definitive Edition

The law is different for undercover cops.

Wei Shen (voiced by Will Yun Lee) is an undercover cop trying to take down a triad in Hong Kong, and to do this he must do criminal acts as a gangster to keep his cover intact while also balancing out doing criminal acts as a cop because... its fun? And that's the important bit: FUN!

The multitude of activities in the open world map of Hong Kong range from the mundane to the hilariously out there. You have street racing, fight clubs, karaoke, chop shop thefts, debt collection, and for collectors lots of lock boxes and shrines to discover and vehicles and clothes to purchase. Yep, different sets of clothes provide different bonuses and I cannot think of another game where I changed attire so frequently. It's so easy to get engrossed in this one, even if Wei tends to inexplicably lose firearms all the time.

Occasionally, cars are made of explodium!

Losing guns doesn't matter though as guns are actually a "rarity" in the game (yeah, not so much later) making gun play one of the weakest aspects of Sleeping Dogs. Still serviceable, but just OK. Most of your fighting will instead be ye olde school martial arts with a system similar to Batman: Arkham Asylum but more robust. I cannot stress how brilliant the systems all work so well together. Also, if you get the Definitive Edition you have the additional content of the DLCs!

Nightmare at North Point sees Wei take on supernatural beings (which features a rarity - the Chinese hopping zombie / Jiangshi), Year of the Snake deals with an end of the world cult who have way too many explosives, and the Zodiac Tournament is where you are invited to a remote island to fight against the other best fighters in the region. An easy one to recommend I give this game four and a half DZS-90s out of five. Yes, even with the random bugs. It's just so much fun!

Insight: Always get massages. If you are going to fight, also drink some Dragon Kick and eat some street food before hand. Also, remember car-fu is stronger than any kung-fu so feel free to run over any criminal scum when you can.

An AFK PUG Solution

[Part of the Design Folder]

Roger once asked if in MMORPGs, you should have expectations of other players - especially when it comes to PUG (randomly grouping player) instances. In his example, the event in Star Trek Online required a minimal effort from everyone to cover all the objectives but since the rewards were based on repeated attendance and not actual participation this encourages a lot of people to just AFK / let the others do the work for them. This is a rampant problem that exists in pretty much every MMO.

Since it boils down to being a social problem, I think the easiest way to handle this is simply via vote system which already exists in many games. The only difference is that this one will only show up if you fail or don't complete all the objectives in a random queue, and it simply asks "in your opinion, which of your team mates performed the worst?". An option to select no one will always be present.

Then, these votes are simply tallied per character/account. Otherwise, if the average of their votes/fails exceeds a particular threshold, they earn some sort of "shit" badge. People with a "shit" badge will only be paired with other "shit" badge holders. There is a way to get rid of that hindrance though - every time they fail a instance/event in a random queue and are NOT voted worst by anyone, the vote count drops by one and eventually the average will sway them back into the good books. 

Note: This is only for failed random queues/instances. If your team wins or you group up with others intentionally (not a random grouping), nothing happens vote wise positive or negative.

That's my idea anyway. Let me know what you think!

Gloomhaven: Jaws of the Lion

My new favorite.

Odd things are afoot at the city of Gloomhaven and it's up to your cooperative party of up to four to solve it and more importantly, beat up those behind it. At its core, this is a tactical battle RPG but the game play is so different to anything I've played before (and no I've never played the original Gloomhaven).

At the start of a turn, each character selects two cards (out of a hand of 10-ish) to play and must use the top part of one and the bottom part of the other. Usually, movement is at the bottom and attacks are up the top. The cards also have an initiative value, and since you aren't meant to talk exact numbers with your allies (and the bad guys get random initiative anyway) the board can change drastically before you get to do your two moves - after which those cards are discarded.

The pages in the books acting as the "board" is brilliant and should be used more!

There's a way to refresh discarded cards, but it means permanently losing one for the mission. You can also opt to lose a card to negate damage and some cards are simply super strong, but one shot - which means you lose them too. Lose all your HP OR go down to one or less cards and that character is down/exhausted/out of the mission.

While being very alien at the start It's a very cool system and one that encourages loads of thinking. Yes, your characters level up (get better cards to swap in), get perks, can buy / sell gear, have random city events, but the main bulk of this is the thinking, and it's great! It's almost like chess, but you don't know when your move will take place so you probably should have a pair of cards that will work in multiple ways. But does that pair have a low enough/high enough initiative value? Are you hoping the baddies move into range first? Or do you want them right where they are now to do an effective combo?

The tutorial of the game is fantastic too as it really helped my gaming crew get the hang of what is going on while slowly adding more and more mechanics. Also, having the maps simply printed in the book is pure genius as well as that cuts down a lot of setup time. I can't recommend this game highly enough and give it six hatchets out of five. Yes, it's so good it broke my scale. Obviously it's my new favorite. :P

Insight: Reach level five before attempting the missions past number 17.

Tacoma

A good way to tell a good story.

As a contractor sent into the Tacoma space station, you must explore the seemingly abandoned corridors to find out what exactly happened there. There's decent controls to help you through the very good story, and the use of "recorded" imagery works really well not just in "cheating" for simplified models but fits in the setting so nicely. The voice acting is definitely good enough to cover for it anyway.

Full of simple but effective ideas.

Also, props for an ingenious use for sign language. The only drawback for some is that this is definitely a "story" more than a "game" but for something this good, it shouldn't matter. I wish some of the loading times were faster though. Still highly recommended, I give it four space cats out of five.

Insight: Don't worry about missing stuff. Any plot important codes you need to find, you will find simply be experiencing the story. The only thing explorers get is a bit more world building and background.

Good Design: Nine Lives Stealer

Something to translate into MMORPGS.

The Waterdeep: The Dungeon of the Mad Mage board game is full of bad design ideas, perhaps that's what made this one item stand out for me. The Nine Lives Stealer is a powerful magic sword that you earn by beating the death knight who wields it (and boy does he wield it well). As a player item, it does above average and consistent damage on a hit, and on a roll of 20 on a 20 sided die it instantly kills whatever you hit, including bosses! Should that ever happen, the sword is then lost.

That would make a fantastic weapon in MMORPGs, which should translate to doing damage equal or a little better than the top tier weapon at every release. It is something people would want to grind for and want to have a supply of. Something pay to win people would buy from the auction house and/or the cash shop. Something that would always be in demand. Obviously you won't want to use it as your "main" weapon because I know a lot of people don't want to suddenly be fighting barehanded (obviously monks / martial arts don't exist or aren't effective in that world), and you definitely don't want to risk losing it against a minor add.

But as something that could potentially cut down the time in a dungeon and/or instakill bosses? Or even that annoying guy in PvP matches? Hell yes. Take that Tiamat! In your face Zariel! This is one reward I'd definitely like to see implemented.

The Wild Hunt: Explorer

[Part of the Wild Hunt story]

Having heard of Geralt's previous success as a horse racer, Cleaver hired the witcher as his rider in the big four three's night time race. Unfortunately the small fortune he wagered was lost as Bedlam's rider won by a neck, leading the frustrated dwarf to tell Geralt to piss off.

This suited the White Wolf just fine as he was done with Novigrad for the time being, opting to head out and explore the rest of Velen, taking care of any beasts and brigands he came across. One particular bandit group stood out as they were humans following a werewolf leader... a rare occurrence that made Geralt wish he knew how to dual wield.

Every area in fog is probably home to these tricksters...

Due to the war, there was also a great deal of treasure and equipment just lying around for the taking - including some underwater chests. As expected, drowners who are rather easy foes on the surface have quite the advantage underwater. Luckily, it turns out a crossbow works even better when fully submerged.

Insight: Reaching the edge of the map gives a "end of the world" message, followed by a quick travel option. While it takes away from immersion, the convenience results in good design!

MMO Design: Limited Resource Design

[Part of the Design Folder]

DMDavid's Adventurer's League quick start document has many interesting ideas that I would like to see in an MMO setting. A summary of intriguing mechanics that I've altered slightly for MMO consumption:

-Players only gain gold when they level up, with higher amounts awarded for higher levels. Once a player reaches max level they can get no more gold.

-Gold can only be used to buy mundane (non magical) gear and/or services from NPC merchants. A healing potion is an example of magical gear that you cannot buy with gold.

-Players gain level through advancement points, which are gained via quest progression and not necessarily by killing monsters. They cannot be farmed. More advancement points are required to advance to higher levels.

-Monsters will only drop quest/adventure appropriate items. Not loot and not EXP in the traditional sense.

-Players also gain treasure points by leveling up, with more points awarded for higher levels. Once players reach level cap, they can gain no more treasure points.

-Treasure points are spent on NPCs who sell powerful magic equipment - like, a single use healing potion. All this magic gear is of the consumable type, that is having a fixed amount of uses and then is gone. A magic sword might have 10 swings before returning to a normal sword permanently for example. Even the cheapest magic item will require multiple levels worth of treasure points to purchase.

-Gold, treasure points and advancement points cannot be traded / bartered between players but equipment (regular and magic) can. Equipment can never be sold back to NPC merchants for their corresponding currency.

As you might appreciate, this strongly pushes players to have characters "retire" at end game - but it also might encourage multi-toons because to fight "that last boss" I need / want to send my best guy with all the best magic gear... which only happens if he is equipped by other people.

There might even be a "retire" option (so the server can save on character slots) which sets aside the old adventurer permanently but gives your new character a magic item or two from the old one, if the veteran was of high enough level - or perhaps spent enough gold in his will.

If you wanted to "hard core" it, permadeath can also be applied again using the "will" system to pass on some hard earned items. In this particular case I don't think it is required though, and death being just a time penalty (returning the player to a spawn point) is enough since the limited resource design will eventually lead the players to the end/rebirth.

Now, one caveat of such a game is that there must be more quests than levels - and that the easier quest options become "non-rewarding" once you get past a certain level to avoid people that just go after low hanging fruit.

What do you think? Would such a game interest you?

Design: Longer Combat isn't always more Fun

It's just more tedious.

[Part of the Design Folder]

How many times do you think you need to stab someone with a sword, or shoot with a gun, before they die, or at least are incapacitated enough to stop fighting? RPGs in particular have a nasty habit of making this number waaaay higher than it should be.

Yes, combat doesn't have to be realistic in games but it has to be fun! Dark Souls is a decent example as boss fights are varied enough to require learning and require no repetition (unless you fail), and that the more mundane enemies are often slain quickly, or quickly slay you.

The Assassin's Creed series was doing good too - using the counter-kill system which made combat through the swarms of baddies not only fun but kept the games tempo up. That is until they made AC: Unity. Gone is the counter-kill ability, replaced by parry / slash-slash-slash button mash. Oh, so just like Dark Souls right?

Wrong. Dark Souls has a wide array of enemies with different behavior patterns and attacks and as I said, combat ends quickly. AC: Unity has the same 4 dudes in various skins on an endless, respawning loop and some are HP sponges for no other reason than "this zone is harder, so the baddies should have more HP". They are also so frequent which ultimately makes them a chore rather than a fun experience. Stupid design Assassin's Creed: Unity. Stupid design.

Developer Appreciation: Mabinogi Combat System

Today's Dev Appreciation is focused on the cutesy MMO Mabinogi, which still has the best basic combat system of any MMO I've played so far. Unlike everything else which is basically trying to maximize your DPS rotations, fighting here is at a much slower pace using a rock paper scissors type format. A regular attack can be blocked or countered, a smash attack defeats defending stances but can be interrupted by a regular attack, and a counter stance makes you immobile and drains stamina for as long as you take it.

More skills, like this jump smash, came in later.

It's simple and effective, and given most of the NPC enemies have the same skill set also meant a talented player with a newbie character could still beat harder boss-type foes, while an advanced character with a less skilled player could still be losing quickly to lowly wolves. That's the way it should be.

I also quite liked the upgrade options of gear. Usually any piece can only be upgraded 3 times out with around 5 options on each occasion. The options add and subtract various stats, and the measurement of "balance" for weapons played a significant role. For example making a sword heavier gave it a wider damage range but throttled the balance of the weapon meaning an untrained character would always be on the lower numbers, but a character with high enough dexterity to make up for the terrible damage would thrive using such a weapon.

MMO Design: Enemies should be like Plants

If we're farming we may as well be gardening.

I hate weeds. If left alone they grow and expand and become a lot tougher to remove. It does feel better removing a huge cluster than a single tiny sprig though. Now imagine if we translate that into MMOs. Lots of spawn points on the map but they all start out as weak critters with little loot. Much like there are different types of weed, these don't need to all be the same type though.

Areas that are frequently farmed or tended will spawn more of those weak critters again. Those less frequented will have mobs "grow" into stronger versions. Maybe a lizard becomes a small dinosaur or a spider becomes a bigger spider, and the loot becomes better. Maybe you can't get dragon scales until a lizard evolves that far.

Obviously the map design and available travel modes will play a big part in this setup. On a flat plain with teleporters equally spaced out among the spawns it's likely the player population will simply murder everything fast enough so that nothing will ever "grow" (though the "growth" stages only need to be a matter of minutes in between). In maps like in Guildwars 2 that has secret zones, jumping puzzles, bridges and gates that are only open when set conditions are met, this system might be better as it will force people to venture out and/or to return to zones already done in search of "big game".

Do you think such a system would be good in your (or any) MMO?

[Added to the Design Folder.]

Ban those Lockboxes II

Now the enemy starts to pay for their sins!

[Part of the Design Folder.]

An update from last time, I am overjoyed to hear the news that game companies are starting to pay the price for using loot boxes. Heavily, in Nexon's case. I hope this momentum continues and sweeps across to the West to force devs to make actual content instead of cheap gambling alternatives.

Anything that someone pays for that only gives that person (and only that person/small group of people) a chance to get something is shit. I don't care if its a box, or a key to access an instance or monster that has a chance to drop something. If its not available to people who don't purchase "the extra doohickey", it is WRONG. In a game, everyone should have an equal chance. Always. Regardless of real life stature.

The real life loot crates are equally stupid and hopefully are banned just as hard one day. You want a shirt? Buy a shirt - the exact one you want. Don't buy a box that might contain a shirt that may or may not even fit you. What's next? Mystery pizza?

Ban those Lockboxes

Germany might be leading the way.

[Part of the Design Folder] 

News that in game lock boxes may soon become illegal in Germany has definitely brightened my day, as I truly believe these gambling components detract from any game they exist in. Hopefully the law passes and gets spread world wide, even if it does mean some of my favorite F2P games are forced to shut down in the process.

Yes, gambling is bad (and its worse when its kids getting addicted to it) but more to the point, imagine how much more effort would be going into enhancing or expanding a game if developers weren't so reliant on the low hanging fruit of the lock box crutch?

Design: Subtitles Mandatory

[Part of my Design Folder] 

Not a rehash of Voice Actors vs Subtitles. Promise!
 
The first thing I do every time I start up a new game is look in the options to turn on subtitles. I realize having them might bother other people, but I quite like being able to read what is being said without either having to translate the voice actors odd accent or turning up the volume. A side effect of watching many subtitled anime I suppose.

It bugs me then, when I run into games that do not have this option. I suppose those particular games aren't marketed for deaf people either? It's just one of those areas where a little polish goes a long way. What do you think?

MMOs: TESO Level Scaling

[Added to my MMO Design folder.]

Years ago I did a post about the problem with levels in an MMO. Having now experienced the Elder Scrolls Online, I now get to see the other / another side to it and that is level scaling.

Much like in Skyrim, the bad guys always match your level - irrespective of map zone. This is a truer scaling than what Guild Wars 2 tried to do, where a level 70 who is "down leveled" in a lower level zone can still steamroll everything. Here's a quick Pro/Con tongue in cheek list for what TESO does:

Pros: You can now go in any direction immediately and not his "Foe Walls" to your quest progression. Wandering into a level 60 zone while level 5? No problem! Those enemies will hold their punches for you. Also, this means your friend who just joined the game can come into that uber, end of game quest with you. Nice!

Cons: Missed the tutorial happy cake dungeon (that doesn't exist - just my example) and are going back as a max level character? Expect those tutorial monsters to have a lot of new DPS heavy moves and hundreds more HP - enough to actually challenge you! Also, congrats - you just finished the game after 3 months? The guy next to you finished it in 1 day... while level 5.

I can understand why people both like and dislike the system, and while I don't mind it since I do prefer people to be able to immediately play together in games, I still think having no "over all" levels is the best approach.

By that I mean, don't attach Life or HP to levels, or if you must make it by the smallest of fractions. A new player gets 100hp. And end of game character might have 110 at most. Getting hit by a bus, or more likely stabbed with a sword, should still one shot either.

And don't even get me started about level based gear either. Blargh.

TESO: A Giant Problem

Adventures of Skyrim - spoilers ahead! You can follow the rest of the story here!

Despite looking familiar, Riften had definitely changed. Quite possibly due to the recent attack from giants that leveled an entire corner that contained my house! There was no sign of Lucia or Sofie anywhere and the orphanage had been turned into a craft workshop, which as a silver lining sells increased bag space for gold! All the banks do the same too. Good design TESO!

With no leads on the girls I decide to just work on the problems at hand, helping the city put out fires and rebuild then dealing with Mannimarco's Worm Cultists prevalent in the surrounding area. This leads me to slaying a lich, putting pieces of Ysgrammor's axe together and meeting the Jarl King Jorunn, the leader ofthe Ebonheart Pact, laying seige to a Worm Cult stronghold - specifically the one where they raise dead giants! Yes, they were behind the attack on Riften.

I'm in the right spot, if only I can pull my sword out of my shoulder!

I lead the charge and smash our way up to the final giant boss who is an absolute pain to fight, mainly because I've been forgetting to distribute my skill points. Fortunately, Jorunn is a cheater on god mode and with enough shenanigans the giant finally falls. The King, impressed with my skills, then charges me to get the leaders of the other factions to agree to a ceasefire so that we can all team up and attack their main base in Coldharbour. That sounds like a good plan!

MMO Design: How not to Sunset a Game

[Part of my MMO Design folder.]

Massively recently drew my attention to Psychochild's blog post of "How to Sunset a Game", wherein he talks about the Business vs Player issues about such an undertaking. My only real experience with a game closing down on me is Wizardry Online, which has led to my utter hate of all things SOE / Daybreak. Sure I've had Ultima Online shards shut down on me too, but all the free ones we played on were with the express knowledge of "this is just some guy/gal running the server, quite likely in their basement, and it can (and will) end at any moment."

But Wizardry Online was run by a "big" company so I was a bit surprised when news of its demise was announced. Obviously the market for it is dying since even the Japan released is being shuttered. How SOE went about this though is really turd level scum. They pulled all support / event runners from the game, while continuing to have a cash shop selling in game items. In fact I think all focus (of the last guy on the project) went to the store, trying to milk players for whatever money they could, knowing full well said items would be useless soon.

How I would have gone about it? Make all those cash shop items free. The zones that are level locked? Open them up to all players! If that's too hard to do coding wise per area, then put an NPC who just hands out XP. Players would have been encouraged to have one last hurrah. As a bonus, since they actually run -other- MMOs, maybe give each player who registered from "x" date a bonus "thank you" package they can redeem in one of their other titles. You know, to encourage your customers to stick around?

Instead they treated the player base like dying lepers, basically ignoring their last, simple, requests while simultaneously trying to milk the remaining whales like desperate leeches. If that sounded wrong, that's because it is. I'm never playing another SOE / Daybreak run MMO again because of that experience, and strongly advise everyone else to keep away from this terrible company too.

Limbo

Appropriately named for the wrong reason.

This is stylistic/minimalistic(?) black and white puzzle platformer is pretty nifty and despite being on the short side of things has some good head scratching sections, especially if you are aiming to get all the extra easter eggs. For something that doesn't use any text or speech, it starts out pretty decent at teaching the player of their limitations and what things are fatal to your character: pretty much everything. :P

It also does a great job of imbuing dread and fear in the earlier stages, something that is unfortunately lost as you progress where things begin relying more on either prior knowledge or excellent gamer ability. The achievement of making it through with less than five deaths is almost certainly unattainable for a first time player as that method of teaching then practice quickly evaporates later on.

Pretty cool for something just in shades of gray.

I feel that the best bits of it are at the beginning. For some reason it seems to have the most care taken design wise. Towards the end when you are avoiding laser guided bullets and playing with gravity altering buttons it feels more and more like a slower Super Meat Boy experience. Doesn't help that the final bit required me to switch to windowed mode to avoid a game breaking crash and that the actual end is quite sudden. I guess much like the title, it's own spirit was lost in Limbo. Still a fun game but not a great game in my book, and it easily could have been. I give it three terrifying giant spiders out of five.

Skyrim: Keys in the Deep

Adventures in Skyrim - spoilers ahead! You can follow the rest of the story here!

Since I screwed up previously, I decided to hunt down the missing people this time around, and found a trap door in one of the houses that led to a subset of tunnels which seemed to connect most of the central structures. In there I also found remains being eaten by a giant skeever who somehow managed to get the drop on me. In it's belly was a necklace that the Dunmer man recognized to be Maisi's, his wife. I guess she didn't find another way out after all.

Super sneaky for a big rat!

The other missing person was the crazy guy's brother who had left him a key and a not so obfuscated clue of looking where he would need to hold his breath. I jumped in the lake and found a submerged house that had a passage into an even deeper underwater cave. I really wish I remembered to learn or bring water breathing equipment, finding an air pocket was hectic. Eventually an exit led out of the water into a chamber with some very hungry Argonians.

If only more NPCs were smart enough to back down.

They were smart enough to let me pass to find the chest which was the "treasure" the crazy guy had been looking for all along. Inside wasn't treasure though. It was another key to a room in the palace. It was then that I realized I had overlooked one suspect...